Skip to content

Verified: Sep 2026

HCPContacts

Aesthetic business contact data

Med Spa Email List

Reach medical spas across the United States and the professionals who decide what they buy. Owners, medical directors, practice and spa managers, operations leads and marketing staff. Filter by state, city or ZIP code and request counts before you buy.

  • Medical spa business records
  • Owners and medical directors
  • Single sites or multi-location groups
  • Managers, marketing and operations roles
  • State, city and ZIP code targeting
  • Business email and phone where held

Get counts and samples first. No commitment. Business contact data only, never client or treatment information.

Med Spa DataNo obligation

Get Med Spa List Counts & Pricing

Tell us the markets, med spa types and decision-maker roles you need. We check what is available and come back with counts, sample records and pricing. Fields marked * are required.

Custom counts and sample records are provided against your own targeting criteria, at no cost and with no obligation.

  • 99% data accuracy

    Measured at point of delivery

  • 97% email deliverability

    Measured across delivered files

  • 100% Opt-In business contacts

    No personal or private addresses

  • Data verified September 2026

    Business records only, never client data

Start here

What Is a Med Spa Email List?

A med spa email list is a B2B contact database of medical spas in the United States and the professionals who run them. It covers owners, medical directors, managers and marketing staff, with job title, business email address and business location.

Each record has two halves. The business half covers the med spa name, address, phone number, website and business type. That can be an independent site, a physician-owned practice, or one location in a larger group.

The contact half adds a person to that business: their name, job title, role and work email address where we hold one. Without it, you have a directory listing. With it, you have someone to email.

Buyers ask for this data under different names. Medical spa email list, med spas email list and med spa contact database all mean the same selection.

Why med spas are not just another healthcare audience

A med spa holds a medical license but sells like a retail business. Treatments are supervised by a clinician. The money comes from consumers who choose to spend it, in a market where a competitor is usually minutes away.

That changes who you sell to. No hospital buys from a marketing manager. At a med spa, that person may be the one who decides.

What buyers try first, and why it falls short

  • A general healthcare facilities file

    What it gets right

    Wide coverage of hospitals, clinics and care settings.

    What it misses

    Most of it is institutional and paid for by insurers. Med spas sell direct to consumers, spend less per purchase and decide faster.

  • A physician email list

    What it gets right

    Named doctors with credentials and specialty details.

    What it misses

    The doctor at a med spa is often the medical director, not the owner. The person choosing a device or a software platform may hold no medical license.

  • A consumer or local business directory

    What it gets right

    Locations, opening hours and a public phone number.

    What it misses

    No named contact, no job role and no business email. You find the spa but not the person to write to.

Before you brief

Why Med Spas Buy Differently

A med spa is a medical business and a consumer business at the same time. Knowing how those two sides work together tells you who to contact and what to say.

The medical side

Treatments are supervised by a clinician

  • A medical director or supervising clinician stands behind the treatments offered. Their view carries weight on anything clinical.
  • Injectables, energy devices and prescription-grade products are judged on medical grounds as well as commercial ones.
  • Training and who is allowed to perform what are ongoing concerns, not one-off projects.
The business side

Clients choose to spend, and can choose not to

  • Treatments are elective and paid for directly. There is no insurer and no referral pipeline bringing clients in.
  • Repeat visits, packages and memberships matter more than one-off appointments.
  • Med spas also sell skincare products, so they are a retail outlet as well as a treatment provider.

What this means for you

A med spa only buys what it can keep busy

Equipment has to stay booked to pay for itself

A med spa judges a device on how busy it will be. If you sell equipment, expect to answer that question early.

So marketing holds real budget

Winning new clients keeps the business alive. Software, agencies and services that fill the schedule are often bought by someone with no medical title.

In practice, one contact is often not enough. The clinician who approves a treatment and the person who fills the appointment book are usually two different professionals. At a small spa you can reach both in the same campaign.

None of this is something you can filter on. No record holds a treatment menu, device list, client numbers or marketing budget. Use it to decide who to ask for. What you can select on is location, business type, department and job role, and that is set out further down this page.

Data fields

What Is Included in a Med Spa Contact Database?

Two halves of one record, shown with sample values so you can see the shape of each field rather than just its name. Knowing which fields are dependable is worth checking before you build a campaign that leans on one of them.

Organization record

The medical spa as a business

Who the business is, where it trades, and how it is put together.

Med spa or business name
Sablewood Aesthetics
Organization type
Medical spa
Website
sablewood••••••••.com
Business address
•••• N Camelback Rd
City
Scottsdale
State
AZ
ZIP code
852••
Country
United States
Business phone
(480) •••-••36
Parent organization
Sablewood Group LLC
Number of locations
3
Employee size
11 to 50
Revenue range
$1M to $5M

The more consistently populated half, because it describes a place and a business rather than an individual.

Contact record

The person you are writing to

A named individual at the spa or at the group above it.

First name
R.
Last name
Ashmore
Job title
Medical Director
Job function
Clinical leadership
Department
Clinical
Seniority
Director
Business email address
r.ashmore@••••••••.com
Business or direct phone
(480) •••-••41
Company and website
Sablewood Aesthetics
Business location
Scottsdale, AZ 852••
NPI
1•••••••74

The half that varies most. A business number is common; a direct dial to a named person is not on every record.

Sample record shown for illustration. The business and the person are invented, and the email domain, street address, ZIP, phone digits and NPI are partly masked. A delivered file carries these fields unmasked.

NPI is not a med spa field, and it is listed as an exception

The sample above is a medical director, which is why it carries one. An NPI identifies a licensed healthcare provider: a medical director, a physician owner or a nurse practitioner may have one, but an owner without a clinical license, a spa manager, a marketing lead or an operations manager will not, and most contacts in this audience are not clinicians. It is supplied where applicable and available, and a selection built around it will be much smaller than the audience as a whole. Say so in your brief if it matters, and the count will reflect it.

Field availability varies by record and by criteria

No file is uniformly complete, and a page that says otherwise is not describing real data. A single-site independent spa has no parent organization to report; not every record carries a revenue range or a direct dial. If your campaign depends on calling as well as emailing, or on knowing the group behind a location, say so when you ask for counts. The reply will report how many records in your selection actually carry that field rather than leaving you to assume it.

Decision-makers

Reach Medical Spa Decision Makers, Not Just the Spa

Finding the spa is the easy part. The note beside each group says who really makes that decision at a med spa. It is often not the person the job title suggests, and it changes with the size of the business.

  • Ownership and founders

    • Owner
    • Co-Owner
    • Founder
    • Co-Founder
    • President
    • CEO
    • Managing Partner

    The most important group here. At an independent spa, the owner approves big purchases, picks the product lines and often replies to email personally.

  • Marketing and client acquisition

    • Marketing Director
    • Marketing Manager
    • Brand Manager
    • Business Development
    • Client Experience Lead

    A real budget holder, unlike at any other facility type. Anything that brings in clients is their call. At smaller spas, the owner does this job too.

  • Medical and clinical leadership

    • Medical Director
    • Clinical Director
    • Supervising Physician
    • Lead Nurse Practitioner
    • Lead Injector

    Approves what is offered and how it is done. Sometimes they run the spa full time. Sometimes they supervise it but are not involved day to day.

  • Management and operations

    • Practice Manager
    • Spa Manager
    • General Manager
    • Operations Manager
    • Practice Administrator
    • Office Manager

    Runs the location and handles most suppliers. Often the person who finds a product, tests it and recommends it before the owner approves.

  • Purchasing and supply

    • Purchasing
    • Procurement
    • Inventory Manager
    • Vendor Management

    A separate job mainly at multi-location groups. At a single site, the manager or owner does the ordering and no purchasing title exists.

  • Finance, HR and corporate roles

    • CFO
    • Finance Director
    • Controller
    • HR Manager
    • Regional Director
    • Director of Operations

    Found at group head offices, not at the spa itself. Use this group when you are selling to the company above the location.

One professional, several jobs

Med spas run small teams, so one person often does several jobs. An owner may also be the lead injector, the buyer and the person posting on social media. Their record will show only one title. That is why we build selections on job function and department as well as job title. Asking for marketing decision-makers at independent med spas reaches more of the right professionals than asking only for the title Marketing Director.

Not every med spa has every role. Tell us what you sell when you ask for counts, and we build the selection around the professionals who can act on it.

Owner-level targeting

Med Spa Owners Email List

At many med spas, the owner makes the buying decisions personally. If you sell equipment, a product line, or anything that changes how the business earns money, the owner is often the only approval you need.

When to ask for owners

Ask for owners when nobody else can approve the purchase. That covers equipment and devices, a new treatment or product line, partnerships, franchise and expansion talks, and anything that commits money for more than a year.

Do not ask for owners on everyday sales. Supplies, software trials and staffing services are usually reviewed by a manager first. Going over their head slows the deal down.

Buyers ask for these contacts in different ways: owner, founder, co-owner, principal or managing partner. They all mean the same selection, filtered by the locations you need.

Independently owned single site

One location, run day to day by its owner or a small group of owners. The most common type you will meet.

The owner decides and nobody outranks them. Deals move quickly, and the person you pitch is the person who pays.

Physician or clinician owned

Owned by a doctor, nurse practitioner or other clinician who also treats clients there.

Medical and money decisions sit with one person. Your message needs to cover both.

Part of a multi-location group

Several locations under one brand, with a head office handling some decisions centrally.

Winning one location may not win the account. Software, supply deals and marketing are often decided at head office.

Operating inside another business

A med spa running inside a dermatology or plastic surgery practice, or inside a wellness, salon or fitness business.

The spa may have its own manager but buy through the parent business. Tell us whether you want the spa, the parent, or both.

What can actually be filtered

We hold owner-level job titles, business type, number of locations and the parent company behind a site, so you can filter on all of those. We do not hold ownership percentages, investor backing or franchise agreements, so we do not offer them as filters. Some types have to be worked out from other fields. An independent single site, for example, is one with no parent company and one location.

Not every record has a named owner. Ask for the owner count as a separate figure. It will be smaller than the number of med spas in your selection.

United States coverage

Building a List of Medical Spas in the US

This is business data, not a consumer directory. It is built for companies that sell to medical spas. The question it answers is simple: which part of the US market do you want, and how many med spas are there?

Nationwide

The full US selection. Most buyers start here for a count, then narrow it down.

States and regions

One state, several states, or a region. The most common choice, because sales territories work this way.

Cities, metros and ZIP codes

Down to one metro area or a list of ZIP codes. Useful for field reps and local launches.

Why the split by state is worth asking for first

Med spas open where consumers spend, not simply where the population is. So they are spread unevenly. Two states of similar size can have very different numbers. One metro area can be busy enough to justify a campaign on its own.

Ask for the count by state before you commit. It shows you where the audience is big enough to sell into, and it usually saves you buying a national file you only partly use.

What this data is, and is not

This is business contact data for B2B outreach. It is not a government registry, a licensing database or an official record. It does not list every med spa in the country.

A count tells you what we hold for your criteria, not how many med spas exist. We do not publish a figure for the total number of med spas in the United States, because we have not measured it.

Build your selection

Build a Med Spa Email List for Your US Target Market

Your list is built from four parts. Tell us all four and we come back with counts and pricing straight away.

  1. Geography

    Where you sell

    Usually the first filter, because your territory decides the rest.

    • Nationwide
    • State
    • Multiple states or region
    • City or metro
    • ZIP code
  2. Med spa criteria

    What kind of business

    Start with ownership, because it decides where the buying happens.

    • Organization type
    • Single site or multi-location
    • Parent organization
    • Employee size
    • Revenue range
  3. Department or function

    Which part of the business

    More reliable than a job title at a small business.

    • Clinical
    • Operations and management
    • Marketing
    • Administration
    • Purchasing
    • Finance and corporate
  4. Decision-maker role

    Who exactly

    Added last, and counted separately so you can see how much it narrows the list.

    • Job title
    • Ownership level
    • Seniority
    • Named roles

What a targeted med spa list looks like in practice

Four examples, each one a location, a business type and a role. They show how the parts fit together. They are not counts.

  • California

    Medical spas, independent and physician-owned sites

    Owners, medical directors and practice managers

  • Florida and Texas

    Multi-location medical spa groups

    Marketing and operations decision-makers

  • Selected metro ZIP codes

    Single-site med spas

    Owner-level contacts only

  • Selected US states

    Med spas operating inside a physician practice

    Practice administrators and purchasing contacts

These are examples, not guaranteed combinations. What you can filter on depends on the data we hold for those records.

Get Med Spa Counts

Sample medical spas

List of 10 Medical Spas in the US

Here is a short list of medical spas in the US, taken from ten different states. It is a sample, not a ranking. It shows the kind of medical spa businesses that companies contact for sales, partnerships, supplier outreach, marketing and other B2B campaigns.

Ten medical spas in the United States, with city, state, phone, official website and a publicly listed key contact
Medical SpaCityStatePhoneWebsiteKey Contact / Medical Director
SkinSpirit Medical Aesthetics (Upper East Side)New YorkNY(212) 838-4800Visit Website for SkinSpirit Medical Aesthetics (Upper East Side) (opens in a new tab)Dr. Douglas A. TaranowNYC Medical Director
Old Town Med Spa (Lincoln Park)ChicagoIL(312) 882-0700Visit Website for Old Town Med Spa (Lincoln Park) (opens in a new tab)Drs. Shazel and Nael GharbiFounders and Medical Directors
Mara's Med SpaDallasTX(469) 730-3333Visit Website for Mara's Med Spa (opens in a new tab)Dr. Amir BaluchMedical Director
DermaTouch RNHoustonTX(281) 720-8622Visit Website for DermaTouch RN (opens in a new tab)R. Scott Yarish, MDMedical supervision
Skin! Medical AestheticsDenverCO(720) 902-9597Visit Website for Skin! Medical Aesthetics (opens in a new tab)Shyanie J. Kumar, MDFounder and Medical Director
Center for Aesthetic MedicineLas VegasNV(702) 333-4896Visit Website for Center for Aesthetic Medicine (opens in a new tab)Jasmine Freeman, MSN, APRN, FNP-COwner
Elan Skin & Laser Medical SpaNashvilleTN(615) 814-4999Visit Website for Elan Skin & Laser Medical Spa (opens in a new tab)Joe DeLozier III, MD, FACSMedical Director
La Jolla Cosmetic Medical SpaLa JollaCA—Visit Website for La Jolla Cosmetic Medical Spa (opens in a new tab)—
Hello Laser (Scottsdale)ScottsdaleAZ(480) 391-1071Visit Website for Hello Laser (Scottsdale) (opens in a new tab)Dr. MarcuzzoOwner and Medical Director
Greenwich Medical SpaGreenwichCT(203) 637-0662Visit Website for Greenwich Medical Spa (opens in a new tab)Mitchell J. Ross, M.D.Medical Director

Business information shown above is provided as an example and may change over time. Contact HCPContacts for current database availability and targeting options.

Need a Larger List of Medical Spas in the US?

HCPContacts helps businesses reach medical spas and the people who make decisions there, for B2B sales, marketing, partnerships, supplier outreach and market research. Tell us the locations and contacts you want, and we will help you build a targeted Med Spa Email List.

Med spas are one part of our healthcare facilities data. You can also add dermatologists or healthcare executives to the same request.

You can request a list by

  • State
  • City or metro area
  • ZIP code
  • Organization type
  • Single site or multi-location
  • Job title
  • Decision-maker role

Available filters depend on the data held for each record.

Who uses this data

Who Buys a Med Spa Contact Database?

Eight kinds of business buy this data. The line at the bottom of each card tells you which role to ask for. Reaching the wrong role is the most common reason a campaign to med spas underperforms.

  • Aesthetic equipment and device companies

    Laser, light-based, radiofrequency, body contouring and other treatment systems, plus servicing and supplies.

    Ask for: Owners and medical directors. Add practice managers if you need to arrange a demo.

  • Injectable and professional product suppliers

    Suppliers of professional aesthetic products, their distributors and the training that goes with them.

    Ask for: Medical directors, lead injectors and owners, because the medical and money decisions are linked.

  • Skincare and retail product brands

    Skincare brands looking for stockists, plus the distributors and reps who supply them.

    Ask for: Owners and spa managers, who decide what goes on the shelf.

  • Practice management and booking software

    Booking, point of sale, memberships, records, payments and the tools that connect them.

    Ask for: Operations and practice managers first. Add owners if you are replacing a whole system.

  • Marketing technology and agencies

    CRM, email and SMS tools, review and reputation tools, paid advertising, and agencies that work with med spas.

    Ask for: Marketing managers and owners, the two roles that share responsibility for filling the schedule.

  • Payments, lending and business services

    Card processing, client financing, insurance, accounting, legal and compliance services.

    Ask for: Owners and finance contacts. Use head office roles if the spa is part of a group.

  • Recruitment, staffing and training

    Agencies placing injectors, estheticians and managers, plus training and certification providers.

    Ask for: Owners, medical directors and managers, because hiring is rarely delegated at this size.

  • Suppliers, fit-out and consultants

    Medical and aesthetic supplies, treatment room furniture, fit-out specialists, and consultants who advise on opening or growing a spa.

    Ask for: Owners and operations leads. Add head office roles for anything rolled out across sites.

Listing a category here is not a recommendation of any product, device or treatment. These are simply the kinds of company that buy this data.

Use cases

How Teams Use Med Spa Contact Data

Nine ways teams use this data. The tip under each one applies to med spas specifically, not to B2B data in general.

  • Sales prospecting

    Building a prospect list of med spas with a named contact on each one, so reps start with a person rather than a main phone line.

    Teams are small, so a reply often comes from the person who decides.

  • Territory planning

    Sizing a market before you assign it. Counts by state, metro or ZIP show where there are enough med spas to support a rep.

    The most useful thing to do before you buy anything.

  • Email campaigns

    Running targeted email to a defined audience, with a business email address and job role on every record.

    Segment by job function, not job title. Titles are unreliable at small businesses.

  • Product launches

    Announcing a device, product line or platform in chosen markets, then following up by job role.

    Medical and business contacts at the same spa need different messages.

  • Account-based outreach

    Reaching multi-location groups properly: the site manager plus the head office contact who decides for every location.

    Ask for the parent company on the file, or you may contact the same group twice.

  • Event and conference promotion

    Inviting owners, medical directors and managers to trade shows, training days, webinars and local demos.

    Location matters most here, because attending means travelling.

  • Partnership and channel development

    Finding stockists, referral partners and distributors for a product line, or approaching groups about a bigger deal.

    Med spas sell products as well as treatments, which a purely medical audience does not.

  • Recruitment outreach

    Reaching owners and managers about staffing services, or contacting spas on behalf of candidates and training programs.

    Hiring sits with the owner or manager. Most med spas have no HR department.

  • Market research and CRM enrichment

    Understanding how the market is spread out, and filling gaps in records you already hold.

    Tell us what you already have, so we add to it instead of repeating it.

Data quality

How Med Spa Contact Information Is Verified

These are the figures we measure and stand behind. Below them is the work that produces them.

  • 99%

    Data accuracy

    Measured at point of delivery

  • 97%

    Email deliverability

    Measured across delivered files

  • 100%

    Opt-In business contacts

    Business records only, no personal addresses

  • 48hrs

    Standard delivery

    Typical turnaround once scope is agreed

Company information checks

We check business names, types and addresses, so each record points to a med spa that is really trading there.

Business email validation

Every address is validated before we send a file, so dead addresses do not reach your campaign.

Domain verification

We check each address against the business it belongs to. This catches contacts left behind after a move or a rebrand.

Contact verification

We review names, titles and departments, so each record shows the job someone holds now.

Deduplication

We match records so the same business or person does not appear twice under two spellings.

Suppression and removal

Records that fail a check are held back, not delivered with a warning. We also honor removal requests.

How we keep the data current

We review and correct records continuously, and we build your selection from current data rather than a stored file. The last full verification pass was in September 2026.

Med spas change faster than hospitals or nursing homes. They rebrand, move, open second locations and change owners, and a rebrand usually changes the email domain too. Staff also turn over quickly. So order your list close to when you plan to send, and tell us if you are relying on the parent company field.

Request a sample

Request a Custom Medical Spa Owner Contact List

You do not have to buy a large database and filter it yourself. Answer these six questions and our first reply comes back with counts and pricing.

  1. Which states, metros or ZIP codes do you need?Your territory is the first filter, and it changes every count below it.
  2. Are you targeting med spa businesses, specific professionals, or both?A list of businesses and a list of named contacts are different sizes.
  3. Which roles or job functions matter?Job function works better than job title at a small business. Tell us both if you can.
  4. Do you need owner-level contacts specifically?Ask for this as a separate count. It will be smaller than the number of spas.
  5. Which fields does your campaign depend on?Email, phone, parent company and NPI are not on every record. Name the ones you need and we will tell you how many have them.
  6. Roughly what audience size are you planning for?A rough range is fine. It tells us whether to widen the area or narrow the roles.

A brief that scopes cleanly

Independent and physician-owned med spas in Florida and Georgia. Owners and medical directors. Business email required, phone number where you have one, and the parent company named for any site in a group.

What happens next

  1. You send the targeting requirements
  2. We review the matching records that are available
  3. Available counts are provided, broken out where it helps
  4. Sample records follow where applicable
  5. Pricing is provided for the data you asked for

Standard delivery is 48hrs. Typical turnaround once scope is agreed.

Why businesses use HCPContacts for med spa data

  • Lists built to your criteria, not sold as a fixed file
  • Organization and decision-maker records in the same delivery
  • Counts split by state or role if that is how you buy
  • Counts and samples before any commitment

Business Contact Data, Not Client or Patient Information

Every record describes a business or someone in their job: a medical spa, a job title, a work email address. Nothing here describes a client who has visited one. We hold no client or patient records, no treatment or procedure histories, no appointment records, no diagnoses, prescriptions, insurance claims or billing information, and no consumer health data. None of it is available on request either.

We say this plainly because it is the most common assumption made about data on aesthetic businesses.

This list is for business-to-business outreach. How you use it is your responsibility. You are the sender on your own campaigns, and the rules that apply depend on your message, your location and where your recipients are. Buying a list does not by itself make a campaign compliant with CAN-SPAM, GDPR or CCPA, and we do not claim that it does.

HIPAA is worth mentioning too. It covers protected health information held by healthcare providers and their partners. There is no patient information in this data for it to apply to. We support data requests and honor removal requests, and we will tell you plainly if a request is outside what this data covers.

FAQs

Questions the sections above do not already answer.

No. This list covers med spa businesses and the professionals who run them, including owners and managers with no medical license. A dermatologist or plastic surgeon list covers licensed doctors wherever they work, which is often a hospital or private practice rather than a spa. The two overlap when a doctor owns or supervises a med spa. We can combine both in one file if you need that.

We build selections on job function and department as well as job title. At a small business, one person is often the owner, the buyer and the marketer, and their record shows only one of those. Asking for a function such as marketing or operations reaches more of the right professionals than asking for an exact title. Tell us what you sell and we will build the list around who can act on it.

No. Not every record has a named owner. Ask for the owner count as a separate figure, because it will be smaller than the number of med spas in your selection. Tell us owners are your priority and we will report how many records have one before you commit.

Only records where the contact is a licensed healthcare provider, which is a minority of this audience. A medical director, physician owner or nurse practitioner may have an NPI. An owner without a medical license, a spa manager, a marketing lead or an operations manager will not. We supply NPI where applicable and available. A list that requires it will be much smaller.

Yes, where the spa trades as a business in its own right. A med spa inside a dermatology or plastic surgery practice, or inside a wellness, salon or fitness business, may appear under its own name or under the parent business. Tell us whether you want the spa, the parent, or both, and we will build the list that way.

Anything about a client rather than a business. We hold no client or patient records, no treatment or procedure histories, no appointment records, no diagnoses, prescriptions, insurance claims or billing information, and no consumer health data. None of it is available on request. Personal email addresses are excluded too, because every contact is a business record.

Because the businesses move faster. Med spas rebrand, relocate, open second locations and change owners more often than hospitals or nursing homes, and a rebrand usually changes the website and email domain too. Staff also turn over quickly. So order your list close to when you plan to send it, not months ahead.

Standard delivery is 48 hours once we have agreed the scope. That is a typical turnaround, not a guaranteed service level. Counts and sample records come earlier, before any commitment, so you can check the list size and the fields you need first.

Related Healthcare Audiences

Medical spas are one category inside our healthcare facilities data. If you need the licensed clinicians behind aesthetic work rather than the businesses themselves, our dermatologist email list and plastic surgeon contacts cover that half of the market, and can be delivered alongside the med spa records.

Reach the Med Spas That Match Your Market

Tell us the locations, the kinds of med spa and the roles you want to reach. We will come back with counts, sample records and pricing.

  • The states, metros or ZIP codes you sell into
  • The kinds of med spa: independent, physician-owned or part of a group
  • The departments and roles you need, including owners
  • The fields you need, and a rough list size

Business contact data for professional outreach. Every record describes a business or someone in their job. Nothing about clients or patients.